You say he gave you free will, oppression of women convo.

All names have been removed:

You say he gave you free will, but if he all ready has a plan for you, then do you really have free will?


Plan: A plan is typically any diagram or list of steps with timing and resources, used to achieve an objective.
Destiny: Destiny refers to a predetermined course of events.
Free will: The ability to make a choice without coercion.

Christian1:
I believe we have free will, but because he is not limited by the dimension of time like we are, he knows what choices we are going to make.

Me:
Then free will cannot happen, you cannot go outside his predetermined plan.

Christian1:
Well - I didn't say that our choices were determined by him, just the he knows what we're going to choose before we do.  If you change your mind on something at the last minute - its not a surprise to him because he's not limited to observing you in time.

Me:
God has a plan for you if you serve him, you must submit to him and let him guide you through his plan.  Become a servant tot he lord(or as some preachers like to put it: become a slave to the lord).
This is not free will.  Some preachers even add: You think you have free will, but you do not, for when you submit to the lord you are following his will.

Christian2:
Our will eventually becomes his will, our ways become his ways..submission is an act of love.. and it is freeing.  It is our choice, but Lord please deliver us from doing what we can do..

Me:
Submission is not an act of love.  I would never allow a woman to submit to me.  For I am not her authority, she is her own authority.  To submit is to yield oneself to anothers authority.

Christian2:
1 Cor 14:34....titus 2:5

Me:
1 Cor 14:34: So you agree that women must be silent and have no say in the Church?
So do you agree with 1 Timothy 2:11-12? Let a women learn in quietness with all subjection.  But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
This is oppression of women.
Titus 2:1-5 But speak thou the things which befit the sound doctrine: that aged men be temperate, grave, sober-minded, sound in faith, in love, in patience: that aged women likewise be reverent in demeanor, not slanderers nor enslaved to much wine, teachers of that which is good; that they may train the young women to love their husbands, to love their childrend, to be sober-minded, chaste, workers at home, kind, being in subjection to their own husbands, that the word of God not be blasphemed.
They are only allowed to teach young women to be oppressed as well.

Christian2:
No, I don't believe women have to be submissive and quiet at all times...there is a time and place for everything but I do believe that men and women have roles..men are to be the spiritual leaders and women want and need to be led.. in order to do that, men have to be submissive to God and then to God and then their husbands..its all about being humble and tearing down ugly walls of pride.

Me:
Then if you don't agree with the bible text that women must be submissive all the time as these verses state, then why follow such a thing?  These verses are not about humbleness or pride these verses clearly state that women must remain submissive at all times save for to teach younger women to be submissive.

Christian2:
I do agree with the bible...always..there is a balance(with wisdom and discernment)..I don't think I am to be mute and 100% passive but I do believe I am to be submissive to God.  There are women pastors such as Joyce Meyer that I like and don't see anything wrong with it..as long as she is spreading the gospel obeying God..she also struggled with being submissive to her husband at first...God loves us meets us where we are..It's not so much about these commands as much as it is about our relationship with him. I see him as a gentleman not a dictator. Perspective.

Me:
Then Joyce Meyer is going against Gods Laws, his doctrines.  All scripture is God breathed and to be used to help the servant of God become righteous, if you do not follow Gods doctrines then you are not being righteous.

Christian2: 
Im sorry I didn't mean to get into a doctrinal debate.

And with that she was gone. An atheist friend posted this a day later:

Picking and choosing when and where gods rules apply is blasphemous.  Why not just ignore that whole slave doctrine all together? Are you not intellectually sound enough to make decision based on rational and comprehension of our reality? You just displayed that you are!  Obviously you can see when the bible is clearly full of shit, and ignore it every time you say anything without expressed permission.  So why submit to any of it?  You are ethically sound enough to make your own choices, aren't you?  But what guides those choices must be thought to the outcome of the decision on all that we must someday leave behind, not the ridiculous notion that you or I have any clue what will become of our molecules as their energy weakens and expires.  Of course there are consequences to our actions, but they are not at all individual consequences.  Humanity has no need for submission, only the need for honest reflection.  Shed the archaic slave ideology, and evolve with the rest on honest society...